If Validated That is Enormous Information on Leucine — A Paradox Solved?

So many paradoxes round leucine – The Most Important Amino Acid – However essentially the most highly effective stimulant of MTOR – Can’t construct muscle with out it – however stimulates Insulin secretion . . .

Been avoiding Leucine in fasted state and consuming publish exercise, however this video has me rethinking that.

What do others assume and know right here?

Layne Norton was on Andrew Huberman’s podcast and briefly talked about Leucine function in Mtor. It is perhaps of curiosity to you as Norton did plenty of his graduate work on Leucine

Rapamycin is a marvel drug within the sense that it lets us have our cake and eat it. What I imply is that the lifespan and healthspan methods battle. Technique A for a 40 yr previous male would possibly contain castration, caloric restriction, fasting, leucine restriction, and so on. The technique A person ages slowly however suffers from frailty. Technique B man lifts heavy, takes TRT and maybe HGH, and consumes excessive leucine, and so on. He dies in his early sixties of coronary heart illness or most cancers, however he seems to be nice within the casket. Rapamycin and related molecules often is the solely intervention that fights each getting old and frailty on the similar time.

Dudley Lamming says that isoleucine is worse than leucine in his newest ARDD2022

So, what are we to do?
“The distinction between isoleucine and leucine is that isoleucine is a necessary amino acid that’s vital for power manufacturing, whereas leucine is a necessary amino acid that’s vital for muscle progress and restoration. Each are present in animal proteins, however leucine is usually present in increased concentrations than isoleucine.”
Most animal proteins include round 3-5% isoleucine by weight.

So, the fats man tells you the right way to eat?

Low protein within the aged ends in sarcopenia and frailty.

I used to be enthusiastic about his saying that the concentrations of leucine wanted to activate mTorc are pretty excessive, in extra of 1mM (12:00 in video), whereas the doses they offer get them to 0.5mM and ranges after a very good excessive protein meal are usually 0.25 – 0.3 mM. This raises SIRT1 and SIRT3, he says, with out elevating mTORC.

I consider that’s true and actually, the video tells me that it might take extra protein than even a protein-rich meal has to boost leucine to ranges that might elevate mTORC.

In any case, decrease protein consumption is related to higher longevity in youthful folks reasonably than older folks.

“Conclusions: Our findings counsel {that a} excessive consumption of dietary protein is inversely related to frailty in older adults.”
“The meta-analysis of 4 research indicated that older adults with sarcopenia consumed considerably much less protein than their friends with no sarcopenia”

Sure precisely – that’s the revelation right here – Leucine moderately (as much as a excessive protein meal equal doesn’t drive MTOR.

Query is does it shut down autophagy?

However regardless I’m going to be a lot much less involved about taking Important Amino Acids – or protein wealthy meals in an already fasted state.

I should be lacking one thing. When you’re fasting, how are you getting Leucine?

In a every day intermittent quick (let’s say consuming in a 4/5h. window from 8:00AM forth) you possibly can/ought to have as a lot protein consumption as in earlier non-fasting days. The perfect program is to have as a lot vitamins, nutritional vitamins, aminoacids, proteins, … however in a a lot shorter time period each single day, IMHO.

I believe Peter Attia would check with your technique as time restricted feeding as an alternative of fasting, however I get your level and it is sensible. It serms like we’re on the lookout for protein sources which are excessive in Leucine, however low in methionine. Leucine seems to be much more of a paradox now. Leucine promotes heathy progress, however extends lifespan in mice together with issues like Resveratrol. The Blagosklony thesis in a nutshell is that mtor associated progress accelerates getting old. We now have a minimum of three issues that promote muscle progress but sluggish getting old. Rapamycin, train, and leucine. Any others?

Good level – to be exact, going to be much less hesitant to take Leucine or Important Amino acids as a complement whereas in a fasted state – concern was/is getting out of autophagy or ketosis.

I get most of my leucine from non meals sources like beneath – am I nonetheless fasting if I’ve 5 grams of this?

Aminos Capsules – Kion?

If you’re fasted and ingest some protein your liver will in all probability kickstart some gluconeogenesis to replenish glycogen shops. I suppose that in case your quadriceps muscle mass have been glycogen depleted, similar to from a tough bicycle trip, you would possibly keep in ketosis anyway. However why solely 5 grams? I believe you’ll need thirty grams or extra to get any muscle protein synthesis going. So my strategy is stupidly binary. I water solely quick, or I eat like a clydesdale. Is that this good? In all probability not.

Possibly add some extra glycine if you need the optimistic results of leucine supplementation with out the draw back.
“Glycine is in truth the one acceptor for methyl teams, and may in that approach clear an extra of methionine. An excessive amount of methionine shouldn’t be wholesome: methionine is transformed into homocysteine, a substance that has been related to accelerated getting old and aging-related problems (R). Glycine can scale back methionine ranges within the blood. “

I believed one of many most important objectives of fasting was to keep away from protein, particularly leucine.

Don’t assume so, not in my case in any case. No, I believe it’s primarily to keep away from glucose. It offers the pancreas a relaxation and promotes ketosis which is why most individuals do keto. (Brief rationalization as it’s extra complicated than this.)

Effectively if nominal quantities of leucine (as much as the quantity in a “excessive protein meal”) shouldn’t be stimulating MTOR then looks like autophagy and ketosis can proceed after consuming Leucine . . . .

I at all times assumed that the glucose regulation loop and the mtor loop have been totally different though associated. Assume you’ve got fasted for 3 days and are in ketosis. When you eat protein, your liver could make glycogen from that meal and swap from burning ketones, but when that meal is generally leucine, mtorc1 could stay low. Is that this right?

I[quote=“desertshores, post:14, topic:5006, full:true”]
Possibly add some extra glycine if you need the optimistic results of leucine supplementation with out the draw back.
“Glycine is in truth the one acceptor for methyl teams, and may in that approach clear an extra of methionine. An excessive amount of methionine shouldn’t be wholesome: methionine is transformed into homocysteine, a substance that has been related to accelerated getting old and aging-related problems (R). Glycine can scale back methionine ranges within the blood. “

[/quote]

I’ve come to the identical conclusion. I’ve lowered my whey consumption and substituted as an alternative with collagen peptides.